Welcome to the blog for Prof. John Talbird's English 251 class. The purpose of this site is two-fold: 1) to continue the conversations we start in class (or to start conversations before we get to class) and 2) to practice our writing/reading on a weekly basis in an informal forum.
What do Bicycle Thieves and Calvino's "Postwar Stories" have to say about the quality of life for many Italian people at the close of WWII? In what ways do they approach their subject matter differently? In what ways are they similar if at all?
The Bicycle Thieves, I noticed that the main character was desperate to keep his job and be able to support his family. He did everything possible to get his bike back. At the end he seem that the law wasn't helping him and he realize that he had to solve the problem on his own but he makes a bad decision. The quality of life during this times seem very disorganize, not enough bus for people and not enough jobs.
In the movie and in the film they lived a poor and simple lifestyle compared to how we live now. In the movie they made the story about the stolen bike and it seem it was that mans life and he needs it like how we need our cars for work. In the book there was a stories were more for adults with themes about sex and trespassing. They are both similar in the way they show their lives in italy during that era and none of them are rich and are the working class.
Both De Sica's film and Calvino's stories capture the grit and hardship of the Italian people trying to rebuild after the war. The desire to move on from the war, but still having to repair the damages is perfectly captured in both texts. Something very similar with both texts is the choice of endings. In "Postwar stories", like a majority of the stories in Calvino's work, have an abrupt ending that doesn't conventionally end a story. The same thing is true of Bicycle Thieves, as its ending is very unconventional for the classic story arch; there technically is no resolution and there is no happy ending for the protagonist. The two texts are also similar in their injection of humor in seemingly dark stories. I believe this says something of the times, since Italy was trying to remain hopeful for the future and in rebuilding. One of the differences that come to mind is that with Bicycle Thieves there is still an ending, even if it isn't a happy one, there is still an ending which is often absent in Calvino's stories.
Calvino's Postwar stories and the movie have similarity in terms of the economic depression of the people. In the movie, we saw a lot of men waiting outside a building looking for job. Though one guy finally got the job he couldn't continue it because his bicycle was stolen. At the end of the movie, he tried to steal someone else's bike but that didn't work. In the post war stories, we see stealing in the pastry shop, prostitution etc. but we don't know why those people chose these way as their income source. In the movie, it's clear that because of poverty people are doing what they normally wouldn't do. In both texts, there is only one desire in people's mind which is a means for survival which seems to be impossible. Another thing I noticed in the movie which is the appearance of some rich people in the background of the scene. It's clear that when some people were struggling to maintain daily earning some other are enjoying their life. The rich kid staring at the poor one in the restaurant, and people doing bike race in the city, these are some example of how poor people have to suffer the most in any calamity a society goes through. Parental instinct to love their children is seen both in the movie and the stories. These people are depressed, hungry and hopeless but still they are full of compassion for their kids. Another common theme is forgetting the sorrow with little enjoyment through eating in the restaurant with the kid, eating all different kinds of cakes instead of stealing money and leave, having sex in the rented mattress etc.
Some similarities I noticed in both Bicycle Thieves and post war were the desperation in the characters. to get what they want, although, in bicycles thieves the father only stole the bike because in order to have a good job to support his family he would have to travel far, his intentions were good but stealing is always wrong. and in post war, the naked man that wanted the trousers he cut in line and skipped so many people because he felt like he needed clothes more than the others so he did what he needed to do to insure he got a piece of clothing. The difference between post war and bicycles thieves were in the post war stories the people were living in poverty and seem to be content living that way unlike in bicycles thieve the father wanted better so bad that he had no choice but to steal the other persons bike and hunt the guy down for his stolen bike without the bike his family wouldn’t be able to survive. The father had only good intentions. in post war stories, in the pastry story there were thieve real thieve and this is what they do they have plans on how to steal without getting caught, they have a man for every job, someone who looks out for the clear and the other who get the job done, stealing. And in the train station story, the man that took mad Maria’s bed to charge people to use it because they longed for a bed to sleep on. He wasn’t doing it because he felt bad for the people he did because he was trying to benefit from it. I didn’t think the father in Bicycle thieve was completely wrong for stealing the bike because I understood why he did it. But in societies eye he is wrong.
Both Bicycle Thieves and Calvino's stories are different than the film, Rome, Open City. It means the similarity of Bicycle Thieves and Calvino's stories is to involve some humors but Rome, Open City doesn't. Both post and during war stories should have many dark narratives, such as violence, intrigue, criminal, poverty, and starving. All can be depicted as a tragic story. However, authors (or directors) of these stories almost always involve some essence that lightens its pressure. Life is not always easy and, in our real life, we need the same essence, which is humor and/or art, like music. Bicycle Thieves and Calvino's stories involve some humors and it lightens the mood of the stories although the narrative itself is dark/serious. For example, Bruno's beg in the church while they chasing the old man is intentionally included in this serious situation. We eager to have a hope in these stories and most people like a happy ending. However, these stories from neorealism don't give us any hope (or keep breaking the hopes) but, instead of the hope, we see some humors in the stories. Humors require high-level skills in language. Literature and film need different ways of the expression for expressing humors. Films can use visual. For example, the Bruno's beg is very upright and it is cute. It wouldn't work if this was Antonio's beg. Since literature does not have visual expressions, it needs a different way of the expressions. In Calvino's story, Theft in a Pastry Shop, one of the thieves eats too many bites of the cakes and feels nauseated. It is ironical because the thief is not wealthy and doesn't afford such many cakes and, therefore, he cannot save his demand to eat up the cakes, which end up with decreasing his performance as a thief. Irony can be used as an humor. Visual humor in the film works immediately but literature humor, like irony, works slowly.
The Bicycle Thieves and Calvino’s “Postwar Stories” give the impression that at the close of WWII, the Italians were hopeful that their quality of life was on the rise. However, while things were getting better, the people were still in survival mode. We’ve read in some of Calvino’s stories that people were turning to crimes like prostitution and robbery as a means to make money. This was also the theme of the movie. People seem to be turning to the crimes not because they want to, but because it’s the only way they can survive.
In both the movie and stories it shows us that life for the Italians around the WWII was devasting. They had minimal jobs for people and most parts were corrupted. They wanted to recuperate from from the damages but that was hard. We see in the movie the movie how hard it was for the guy to get the bicycle he needed to his new job but that was cut short when someone steals it. In the stories like in “theft in a pastry shop” we see almost the same corruption when these thief’s go into the shop and to steal what they can. Most people might have remained hopeful but the lack of help there was as we see in both stories with no jobs, no clothing and barley any food is why it was so corrupt and the desperation was high. They had to do what they had to do to survive. While the movie only focused on the hardship of one person the book tells us different stories of different people and what they endured. As Alex had mention in the stories the ending just happens so suddenly leaving us wanting more same with the movie even though we could imagine what might have happened next like maybe him getting a ne w bicycle and getting his job back, but I would’ve wanted to see more towards the end.
The movie and the stories show that poverty was rampant in Italy after war. Some of the stories are fun, while the movie had light-hearted moments and humor, the main character was not having a hard time throughout. He kept having brief moments of hope but ultimately his hope shattered. there is criminality in the stories and the movie to show that when people are poor, desperate and are trying to survive, they might turn to crime. So we get thieves, black marketeers, prostitutes, etc... in the stories.
For a lot of people at this time there was no way of having a comfortable lifestyle. Even the well off still had only a slight upper hand. I noticed that in the film bicycle thieves, there seemed to be inflation and by a large degree. 1,000's were being used like 10's and 100's like ones. This is a small part of the bigger picture. In most of these homes food was the only thing that these people cared about because anything was a blessing to them. This time period was one of sorrow and loss with a slight sense of hope. No more control of the Nazi's and I'd like to bring back what Christopher brought up about the father in bicycle thieves and how in maybe 3 months time he will be back on his feet. They don't know what their future contains but it sure seems hopeful compared to what has just occurred.
The time of WWII films De Sica and Calvino's Postwar stories depicts, poverty and hardship, but still during this time of uncertainty the families are there to support one another. In a desperate need caused a desperate act which failed in the end. I wish there could have been more to the conclusion of Bicycle Thieves, hoping to have seen a positive outcome where he found his bike in the midst of all the bikes that were parked at the side of the road.
The Bicycle thief and the postwar stories both show how after the war conditions were poor so people were desperate to make means happen one way or another. Some people are so deperste that morality goes out the window and surviving becomes best option.
After WWII, people were either very poor or extremely rich. The poor had to look out for themselves and steal from one another to make a decent living. Having an honest life didn't guarantee riches. As the lower class are struggling to get by, they can see the wealthy people living lavishly. For example, in the Bicycle Theif, the little boy was trying to imitate how the rich girl was eating, and his dad told him he would need to be rich to eat like that.
The Bicycle Thieves, I noticed that the main character was desperate to keep his job and be able to support his family. He did everything possible to get his bike back. At the end he seem that the law wasn't helping him and he realize that he had to solve the problem on his own but he makes a bad decision. The quality of life during this times seem very disorganize, not enough bus for people and not enough jobs.
ReplyDeleteIn the movie and in the film they lived a poor and simple lifestyle compared to how we live now. In the movie they made the story about the stolen bike and it seem it was that mans life and he needs it like how we need our cars for work. In the book there was a stories were more for adults with themes about sex and trespassing. They are both similar in the way they show their lives in italy during that era and none of them are rich and are the working class.
ReplyDeleteBoth De Sica's film and Calvino's stories capture the grit and hardship of the Italian people trying to rebuild after the war. The desire to move on from the war, but still having to repair the damages is perfectly captured in both texts. Something very similar with both texts is the choice of endings. In "Postwar stories", like a majority of the stories in Calvino's work, have an abrupt ending that doesn't conventionally end a story. The same thing is true of Bicycle Thieves, as its ending is very unconventional for the classic story arch; there technically is no resolution and there is no happy ending for the protagonist. The two texts are also similar in their injection of humor in seemingly dark stories. I believe this says something of the times, since Italy was trying to remain hopeful for the future and in rebuilding. One of the differences that come to mind is that with Bicycle Thieves there is still an ending, even if it isn't a happy one, there is still an ending which is often absent in Calvino's stories.
ReplyDeleteCalvino's Postwar stories and the movie have similarity in terms of the economic depression of the people. In the movie, we saw a lot of men waiting outside a building looking for job. Though one guy finally got the job he couldn't continue it because his bicycle was stolen. At the end of the movie, he tried to steal someone else's bike but that didn't work. In the post war stories, we see stealing in the pastry shop, prostitution etc. but we don't know why those people chose these way as their income source. In the movie, it's clear that because of poverty people are doing what they normally wouldn't do. In both texts, there is only one desire in people's mind which is a means for survival which seems to be impossible.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing I noticed in the movie which is the appearance of some rich people in the background of the scene. It's clear that when some people were struggling to maintain daily earning some other are enjoying their life. The rich kid staring at the poor one in the restaurant, and people doing bike race in the city, these are some example of how poor people have to suffer the most in any calamity a society goes through.
Parental instinct to love their children is seen both in the movie and the stories. These people are depressed, hungry and hopeless but still they are full of compassion for their kids.
Another common theme is forgetting the sorrow with little enjoyment through eating in the restaurant with the kid, eating all different kinds of cakes instead of stealing money and leave, having sex in the rented mattress etc.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSome similarities I noticed in both Bicycle Thieves and post war were the desperation in the characters. to get what they want, although, in bicycles thieves the father only stole the bike because in order to have a good job to support his family he would have to travel far, his intentions were good but stealing is always wrong. and in post war, the naked man that wanted the trousers he cut in line and skipped so many people because he felt like he needed clothes more than the others so he did what he needed to do to insure he got a piece of clothing. The difference between post war and bicycles thieves were in the post war stories the people were living in poverty and seem to be content living that way unlike in bicycles thieve the father wanted better so bad that he had no choice but to steal the other persons bike and hunt the guy down for his stolen bike without the bike his family wouldn’t be able to survive. The father had only good intentions. in post war stories, in the pastry story there were thieve real thieve and this is what they do they have plans on how to steal without getting caught, they have a man for every job, someone who looks out for the clear and the other who get the job done, stealing. And in the train station story, the man that took mad Maria’s bed to charge people to use it because they longed for a bed to sleep on. He wasn’t doing it because he felt bad for the people he did because he was trying to benefit from it. I didn’t think the father in Bicycle thieve was completely wrong for stealing the bike because I understood why he did it. But in societies eye he is wrong.
ReplyDeleteBoth Bicycle Thieves and Calvino's stories are different than the film, Rome, Open City. It means the similarity of Bicycle Thieves and Calvino's stories is to involve some humors but Rome, Open City doesn't. Both post and during war stories should have many dark narratives, such as violence, intrigue, criminal, poverty, and starving. All can be depicted as a tragic story. However, authors (or directors) of these stories almost always involve some essence that lightens its pressure. Life is not always easy and, in our real life, we need the same essence, which is humor and/or art, like music. Bicycle Thieves and Calvino's stories involve some humors and it lightens the mood of the stories although the narrative itself is dark/serious. For example, Bruno's beg in the church while they chasing the old man is intentionally included in this serious situation. We eager to have a hope in these stories and most people like a happy ending. However, these stories from neorealism don't give us any hope (or keep breaking the hopes) but, instead of the hope, we see some humors in the stories. Humors require high-level skills in language. Literature and film need different ways of the expression for expressing humors. Films can use visual. For example, the Bruno's beg is very upright and it is cute. It wouldn't work if this was Antonio's beg. Since literature does not have visual expressions, it needs a different way of the expressions. In Calvino's story, Theft in a Pastry Shop, one of the thieves eats too many bites of the cakes and feels nauseated. It is ironical because the thief is not wealthy and doesn't afford such many cakes and, therefore, he cannot save his demand to eat up the cakes, which end up with decreasing his performance as a thief. Irony can be used as an humor. Visual humor in the film works immediately but literature humor, like irony, works slowly.
ReplyDeleteThe Bicycle Thieves and Calvino’s “Postwar Stories” give the impression that at the close of WWII, the Italians were hopeful that their quality of life was on the rise. However, while things were getting better, the people were still in survival mode. We’ve read in some of Calvino’s stories that people were turning to crimes like prostitution and robbery as a means to make money. This was also the theme of the movie. People seem to be turning to the crimes not because they want to, but because it’s the only way they can survive.
ReplyDeleteIn both the movie and stories it shows us that life for the Italians around the WWII was devasting. They had minimal jobs for people and most parts were corrupted. They wanted to recuperate from from the damages but that was hard. We see in the movie the movie how hard it was for the guy to get the bicycle he needed to his new job but that was cut short when someone steals it. In the stories like in “theft in a pastry shop” we see almost the same corruption when these thief’s go into the shop and to steal what they can. Most people might have remained hopeful but the lack of help there was as we see in both stories with no jobs, no clothing and barley any food is why it was so corrupt and the desperation was high. They had to do what they had to do to survive. While the movie only focused on the hardship of one person the book tells us different stories of different people and what they endured. As Alex had mention in the stories the ending just happens so suddenly leaving us wanting more same with the movie even though we could imagine what might have happened next like maybe him getting a ne w bicycle and getting his job back, but I would’ve wanted to see more towards the end.
ReplyDeleteThe movie and the stories show that poverty was rampant in Italy after war. Some of the stories are fun, while the movie had light-hearted moments and humor, the main character was not having a hard time throughout. He kept having brief moments of hope but ultimately his hope shattered. there is criminality in the stories and the movie to show that when people are poor, desperate and are trying to survive, they might turn to crime. So we get thieves, black marketeers, prostitutes, etc... in the stories.
ReplyDeletecorrection: the main character was having a hard time throughout
DeleteFor a lot of people at this time there was no way of having a comfortable lifestyle. Even the well off still had only a slight upper hand. I noticed that in the film bicycle thieves, there seemed to be inflation and by a large degree. 1,000's were being used like 10's and 100's like ones. This is a small part of the bigger picture. In most of these homes food was the only thing that these people cared about because anything was a blessing to them. This time period was one of sorrow and loss with a slight sense of hope. No more control of the Nazi's and I'd like to bring back what Christopher brought up about the father in bicycle thieves and how in maybe 3 months time he will be back on his feet. They don't know what their future contains but it sure seems hopeful compared to what has just occurred.
ReplyDeleteThe time of WWII films De Sica and Calvino's Postwar stories depicts, poverty and hardship, but still during this time of uncertainty the families are there to support one another. In a desperate need caused a desperate act which failed in the end. I wish there could have been more to the conclusion of Bicycle Thieves, hoping to have seen a positive outcome where he found his bike in the midst of all the bikes that were parked at the side of the road.
ReplyDeleteThe Bicycle thief and the postwar stories both show how after the war conditions were poor so people were desperate to make means happen one way or another. Some people are so deperste that morality goes out the window and surviving becomes best option.
ReplyDeleteAfter WWII, people were either very poor or extremely rich. The poor had to look out for themselves and steal from one another to make a decent living. Having an honest life didn't guarantee riches. As the lower class are struggling to get by, they can see the wealthy people living lavishly. For example, in the Bicycle Theif, the little boy was trying to imitate how the rich girl was eating, and his dad told him he would need to be rich to eat like that.
ReplyDelete